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It's one of the practical aspects of life.

Yes. So Albert Lasker was my greatest ally, although he himself wasn't interested in medical research. He was interested if you got results and the net of what happened. He wasn't at all interested in getting into how to make something happen. He was interested that it should be done, and he was willing to help me as long as he didn't hear too much about it while he was around. But without him, nothing could have been done.

Then Mrs. Mahoney was of the greatest possible use to me from '45, '46 on because she was ingenious about the handling of people. After I was completely exhausted, she would start sometimes with people, or she would make friends with people whom it would have been impossible for me to make friends with. She gave me companionship, which I needed, because in the beginning we were so completely alone and the idea was so strange to people that if I'd been alone, people would have thought I was a solitary nut. If there were two people, it was more unusual for there to be two nuts than one nut.

Have you noticed a change in that respect?

Yes, the people on the whole--at least the people who