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make the decisions, like Hill, Fogarty and President Johnson--don't consider it nutty at all. As life has gone on, they've found that all the things we said we were deficient in, we were only too deficient in. And as we brought it to their attention, they, too, have become angry and crusading almost that it should be done.

But there are many people in Congress that are still saying, “Oh, you get too much money and there's too much being done and the doctors don't need the money,” because this is being said by many routine doctors in the AMA and elsewhere. Even the Fountain Committee has come out and made some terrible complaints about money being spent badly by the NIH on one grant just today in the New York Post, and Senator Hill is terribly annoyed about it, for which I don't blame him because there'll be people on the Senate Appropriations Committee and on the House side when he gets into a conference who will bring all this up and who are not sure that all the money or efforts are needed. But the people that you have to deal with, the major people, are convinced. Thank God, for a number of years now Fogarty and Hill have been the key people--Hill since '55 and Fogarty since before then. Of course Fogarty only because chairman of the committee around the same time.