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then Social Security Administration, and Leonard Sheely, who was still head of the Cancer Institute, and Dr. Parran, and Dr. R. E., on the bill.

Did Ewing help you in any way?

No, but he wasn't unsympathetic. He was interested at the time in national health insurance and he tried to do something about it. He was made very unpopular over it because of the AMA activities. He didn't help but he was in accord. He didn't make trouble either.

He could have helped though.

Yes, but I tell you this was all considered something they didn't know know how to oppose and yet, you know.

Sheely and Dyer agreed that 15 million dollars could be used the first year intelligently. Now, this was a great concession for Dr. Dyer, who a few years before was saying that the Public Health Service didn't need more than two million 300 thousand dollars for all the ills of the people of the United States. We made out a tentative budget for this amount at our meeting on the 22nd of January, 1948.

A little earlier, in connection with our interest for legislation on national health insurance. . . .

In order to get some citizens' support to the idea of