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have been a poor person to ask because Murray was known to be a liberal and Cannon probably disliked him, but at any rate, that's what we did. He was known to be incredibly tough, impossible to move by anybody, and from Missouri, literally and figuratively.

We arrived in his office, Florence and I, which was large and dark; he was sitting like an elderly gnome in front of a large table. As we walked in, he said, “Well, ladies, I suppose you think you have a lot of influence in the United States Senate.” This remark, of course, threw us completely. We tried to tell him that we didn't think anything of the kind and we tried to interest him in the need to agree to the Senate figures for cancer and heart research, for the National Cancer and National Heart Institutes. He was completely indifferent. He said he hoped he himself would die of heart disease, and we left in great distress, as we realized he was going to give us no help and that Keefe who had told Scribner during the passage of the bill in June the year before--had told Scribner that the bill wouldn't cost any additional money--and here Scribner would be in a conference with 33 million dollars more for these two Institutes, so we were in despair. We didn't know how we could keep this money that had been so hard fought for.

But, as I remember your account of that, that was during that session that there would be no more money appropriated.