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We wasted a lot of time trying to get a chairman who was head of a big industry, but now I think we've decided that the best thing to do would be to get Mike de Bakey to sign the letters, because he's a well know heart surgeon, his credibility about knowledge of the need for trastment of high blood pressure would seem more authoritative than that of people who just are heads of industry.

Yes, and his name is know nationally.

You think it's better known than most of industry, don't you?

Oh yes.

Well, that encourages me.

The center for this citizens' group is located, ware?

We have an office in Washington.

What kind of budget do you have?

Oh, about $120,000. No big budget. But I spend a lot of my time and energy.

-- and money.

And money, and to hire somebody who would do the equivalent of what I can do would cost a great deal of money, so that you can count that I've got the help of other people who would be very expensive if we hired them. So you can count that. It's really just a small staff.