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and grains, and they're building a plant at Madison, Wisconsin because of the outstanding department of agriculture at the University where they can get a lot of help.

But they were doing medical research.

Oh, yes, they're doing medical research. But according to Jordan Gutterman, who's an adviser to Shell Oil, who gave them $5 million to do something about interferon, they're not as advanced as Genentech and Hoffman-LaRoche.

Shell didn't buy them out?

No, they just gave them $5 million, as I recall.

Last year it seemed that Shell was interested in taking them over.

Well, they could easily, but I don't think they want to be taken over just now. (laughs) Because the pharmaceutical aspects of it are just one of their things. They're interested in biomas, in energy from biomas, and in agricultural seeds.

There was another thing that you expressed a wish to do, to achieve, and I wondered if you'd done anything about it,