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After all this time working with it, it's still a mystery to you?

Yes. Well, yes. We have to have a new strategy for 1970 on the House side and I'm working on that. On the Senate side, Magnusson went away, to visit Hong Kong for about six weeks. He did not hold hearings until November. He's the chairman of the subcommittee on appropriations for Senate Labor and Public Welfare. He did not hold hearings until beginning in November, something unheard of, and by about the 10th of December he still hadn't come to outside witnesses. Outside citizen witnesses this year amounted to about 150 people, all the way from individual women who were interested in some poverty program to the deans and heads of big medical organizations. We had given a list of doctors to the Senator and his staff and we wanted to have them at the hearings. Well, he had them and 150 others all in three days, and it was a shambles such as has never been known before. Magnusson held hearings from 10 in the morning until 7 or 7:30 at night, with all these people there, and he didn't cut people off. All the committee members were walking in and out.

However, for the Institutes of Health the Senators did add a 10 percent across the board, which meant that for the Institutes of Health, the Senate figure was billion and 176 million. They voted 100 million