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Notable New     Yorkers
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John B. OakesJohn B. Oakes
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were in New York, and were ones that involved only individuals, or two or three people, and those I wouldn't have known about anyway, except the ones in which I was involved, with Chris and with Punch. But the big one, in which the executives of the Times spent two or three days in this inn near Atlantic City, the people whom I clearly remember were present were myself, as the only person from the editorial department; of course, the publisher; Gruson. Oh, I beg your pardon, I'm sorry - we had some roundtable sessions in the publisher's office on the fourteenth floor also, at which everybody who was at Absecon was also present, yes.


That was a follow-up to the New Jersey -?


It's awfully hard to remember. I couldn't swear whether it was follow-up, sequel to it - I think sequel. I think sequel. I believe so but I'm not really sure. I had almost forgotten to say, it just came to my mind, that there were some sessions, some roundtable group sessions similar to the ones that we had for those two or three days in Absecon.

I started to say who the people who were most involved were. In my memory -


Chris would sort of lead there, as the group therapist?


He would start off, that's right, then he would get - and he would put in provocative questions, and -

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