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But first before the New Jersey session, before these large roundtable discussions, there must have been some word from Punch?

- explanatory - oh, yes. Sure. Oh, sure. This was -

Paving the way for Chris to do this.

Oh, certainly. Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. And frankly I imagine, although I really don't recall precisely, I imagine that there must have been a couple of the roundtable, the group sessions before we went to New Jersey, as well as afterwards. I just don't remember. But the people mainly involved were, as I started to say, myself and Rosenthal from the news department, and Reston, from Washington, and Dan Schwartz, the Sunday editor. I cannot remember anybody else from the news department, from the news side. Then the business side included Cox and Fisher and Gruson and - there certainly were other people, but I don't distinctly remember. For example, I am not at all certain whether Mullaney, the business financial editor, was there.

Or John Mortimer?

Or John Mortimer. I think John Mortimer was, but I'd hesitate to say. I'm not really sure. I'm not really sure. The names I've mentioned are the ones that mainly -

If you have a trot at home, perhaps you - can -