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accused me of treason to the profession, and I'm not kidding, in very bitter terms, leaving me absolutely shaken.

And hell, I can't love somebody after a luncheon like that. I was virtually accused to treason because of my attitude on Vietnam, too.

I don't recall ever having that kind of argument with Rosenthal on Vietnam at the luncheon table. But I imagine that all these various disagreements led to what I guess was pretty clear cooling of relationships.

I have -

This later surfaced so evidently in the Argyris book.

I guess that's so.

That's partly why I wanted you to get into that.

Yes. Yes. Well, I do stress that I, in all my disagreements with Rosenthal, who I came to believe was really a very unreasonable and unstable individual, I also always recognized his great ability. And as I've just said, I started out really by thinking so highly of him that I wanted him to be on the editorial page (early sixties).

But that is true, that that's a long time ago.