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-- in an effort to answer the question that you just asked me -- but it really goes into a question of philosophy and the relationship of the natural world to human health and environment, to human health, and you get into philosophical discussions about that. In any case, I think Carter did better in this field, as I said, or understood it better, than any president at least since Roosevelt [FDR].

Was there, at that time, a growing environmental movement in the country and did that make a difference?

Yes. It was beginning to grow, I guess in the 60s. In the 60s, as part of the general convulsions of the 60s, for some reason what you might call the environmental movement really did begin to gain some real popular strength. There had always, prior to this period, been people who were what one could call environmentalists, if you're talking about going back to the early part of the century. But the environmental movement really began to gather some real popular strength in the 60s. And it progressed quite strongly among the public, generally, into the 70s. Then, of course, it took a terrible setback because, when the Reagan administration came in, a terrible setback, on the grounds that environmental protection was not nearly as important as environmental exploitation. Nobody ever put it that way. The Reagan people didn't put it that way, but that was the actual truth of the matter.

Before we move into that period, while we're still in the Carter period, could you comment on his role in Middle Eastern relations? I know that at some point you went to visit [Former President of Egypt Anwar] Sadat, during that period. Is that right?