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mining industry was underemployment. They never had enough work. They would perhaps have very long hours for brief periods, but there was never enough work to go through the year and to therefore give them a secure income and a secure program of work for a whole year. He kept pointing that out. One of the reasons for their attempt to regulate hours and their attempt to have a high wage was to get a living wage for such time as they did work.

At any rate, he made an impression on the community at that time and won at least a large part of his points. When I saw him in the Industrial Commission, that was still his great hour, although he had done a lot of things since, but always as a labor leader. We used to talk about it occasionally and refer to it. He didn't talk so much about that in detail because that was all taken for granted. It was still recent enough history so that anybody who had been reading the newspapers in Theodore Roosevelt's administration would have known all about it. He didn't explain it. It had happened about thirteen or fifteen years before, which was recent enough so that he didn't go into the detail and you didn't have to ask him. The general outlines were known. I don't recall talking to him much about it.

There had been something that had come into his life since that time that had made him the butt of some people's