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extraction. He was the President of the Epworth League of that Methodist church in Yorkville when he was a young man. He's very promising. He's better educated than most of the Tammany men we've ever seen. He's had a good education. He got it here in New York City, but it's a good education. He went to City College. His education has stuck to him. He's very good indeed. We're going to be able to work with Wagner.” That was what he said about him.

He went to see Al Smith at the same time. He reported on him also. “Smith,” he said, “is pretty crude. He has basic intelligence, but he's under the spell and under the direction of Tammany.” This is what Paul Kennedy's first impression was when he went to see Al Smith. Shortly after the time that Paul Kennedy had said this he revised his views about Smith. Smith did have the hoarse voice and the rough way of talking when he was young, as well as when he was older.

Paul Kennedy, Irene Gibson and I went down to see Al Smith when he was in the Assembly. He wasn't leader. He was just in the Assembly. We went down to see him about the mothers pensions bill. Sophie Irene Loeb was the promoter of the mothers pensions bill. She was a Hearst newspaper woman. However, the type of bill she was promoting was pretty bad.