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papers and a lot of memoranda, but they were sketchy and weren't a full description of the plan. They were dealing with the item of the moment.

As I remember, the primary problems that day were legal problems about interpretations of various decisions under the anti-trust acts, and the degree to which the plan they had could rely upon these decisions, or certain dicta that were in the decisions, to give them a loophole in their planning so that the Supreme Court couldn't come down on them like a thousand bricks. I do remember Johnson saying, “Well, what difference does it make anyhow, because before they can get these cases to the Supreme Court we will have won the victory. The unemployment will be over and over so fast that nobody will care. We'll go on doing it somehow under some other name, because this is the answer.”

I remember being startled by that. Public officials don't ordinarily, at least in the presence of a Cabinet officer, say, “We'll do this thing anyhow and worry about its legality later.” They may think it, but they don't say it very often. I remember being struck by that. There were some other lawyers there. There was certainly no one that I recognized from the Attorney General's office. There may have been somebody lower down, but neither Harold Stephens nor the Attorney General were there. Harold