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Stephens was the Assistant Attorney General, who later became very well-acquainted with this NRA business. I think he has told me since that he did get into that conference once or twice, but that he had thought that it wasn't going to go through. He had thought that there wasn't going to be anything to it, that it was a lot of talk.

I remember that as I sat there that day, I kept saying to myself. “This is a lot of talk. This is a lot of talk. Where do they get the authority? Who's spending the money on this? Who's supporting this? What department is this in? What department's budget is being utilized to pay for all this, whatever it was?” I don't think Johnson held any position in the government. I don't think Tugwell was in the Department of Agriculture at that time. I'm pretty sure he hadn't been appointed yet. I remember wondering what Tugwell's role was. I knew that he had been interested in the campaign. I didn't know just what he had done, but I knew he had taken some part in it and had helped the President. I remember that I said to myself, “What payroll is he on, if any? Where does he come from? What authority does he get?” I wondered the same thing about two or three other people that were present. I just wondered how it was all being paid for.

I could have financed the thing in the Department of