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They all knew all that, but the demand for coal was not enough. Water power came in and just took off the edge. It was being used more and more, in addition to which natural gas was coming in. At that time nobody had ever thought of the “big inch” to pipe natural natural gas to the East, but more and more natural gas was being discovered and used. They were discovering natural gas in shale formations where there wasn't enough coal to make it profitable to mine for coal, but they were finding natural gas on deposit with it.

Anyhow, that combined with the depression, with all they'd lost, with their capital all gone, with the fact that they couldn't raise any more capital made for a desperate situation. I remember asking them, however, if they had thought about it and had really considered the consequences of this. I remember plainly making a little bit of a speech just before we adjourned for lunch in which I said that I thought this was terribly serious, that they ought to think about it again and I hoped they would over lunch, perhaps consulting with others. This was a serious change of policy both for industry and for the government. Nothing in the political patterns of American life, nothing in the present administration's political planning, political patterns, or political promises had even contemplated the taking-over of any industry, much less the coal industry, which was a basic