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they didn't. I discovered, as I began to inquire into this to see what was going on, that they were definitely against each other. Both groups were racing forward to make sure that they were the ones that framed this and that nobody else got in on this.

I discovered almost immediately that it was deliberate that none of us knew anything about it. It was a deliberate plan on the part of whoever thought this up. The people who stand out in my mind most definitely as having thought this up are Tugwell and Hugh Johnson. There were others who were in their group, I know, but at the moment I can't remember them, although they sat around the table the day I went to talk with them. I think George Peek was in with them. He was around a good deal. He was a friend or colleague of Johnson - at least at that time he was.

To this day I don't know who dreamed up NRA, because it didn't become clear in any of the inquiries. I discovered these two groups meeting. One was meeting over in the upper floors of the old State Department Building, I think. They were meeting in great secrecy and were very angry when they discovered that I knew about it. The other group was meeting some place downtown. I never did know where that was. That was the Wagner group. Wagner's assistant, Simon Rifkind, was in that group. He was Wagner's principal