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this program was that was going on, about which we had only rumors. Even Wallace, who had just discovered it, had only a vague rumor. I questioned Lewis Douglas and I couldn't elicit from him any very complete story of what was going on, or who was doing it. He did agree that he thought Wagner was interested in it. I think he said that Mr. Tugwell was interested in something. It was just something he thought ought to be looked into a little more completely.

When I talked with Wallace, he knew Tugwell was in on it. Whether Tugwell had told him directly or not, I don't know. I'm not positive about this, but my memory is that the person who had told Henry about it that morning was Tugwell. Henry Wallace had just suddenly heard about it.

Well, I went back and asked Lubin if he'd heard about it. Lubin had heard about it. He'd heard about it in the same vague way - just that there was a great thinking going on. He knew other people who were involved in it. He knew much more about the Wagner-Meyer Jacobstein thinking arrangements than about anything else. I think he didn't know anything about Tugwell's being in on it at all, if I remember rightly. As a matter of fact, they were not working together, but at cross-purposes. These two groups weren't consulting each other at all. Wagner and Jacobstein didn't know that anybody else was doing any thinking. At least, they said