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textile industry had no union at all. This was a hangover union. McMahon from somewhere in Rhode Island was the head of the cotton textile union. He was a nice, well-intentioned, ignorant fellow. They had a little bit of the cotton textile industry organized. They wanted to keep that organized and that was all they cared about. They didn't have any thought of really organizing the cotton textile industry. Slater said that if you brought labor in, you'd just have a catfight, because the employers who had organized labor in mills - a handful of people who were the smallest part of the industry - would be dictated to by labor and you'd get dictation by the small part of the industry rather than by the big part.

I could see that. That was true of almost every industry except the building trades. That wouldn't be true now to the same extent. There's been a great deal of organizing since. We have a bona fide steel union now. We had no steel unions at all then. I recognized that to put them on the code committees, as we did in the State of New York, would be ridiculous. In New York we often had to have substitute people, just theoretically representative people on the code committees, but at least labor was heard. Labor was noticed. Labor's thinking was represented in some way. I, of course, always had the ambition to develop