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always had in mind. The farmers, the labor men, and the businessmen too.

Except that it seemed to me Wallace changed, right in here. Did you note any change?

In what?

In attitude, in outlook--that his programs became a very much more intense thing than they had been before. He'd always had programs, all his life--policies and programs that he would like to see put over, and he'd do what he could to promote them. But here they became a fate thing, which it seemed to me culminated in 48.

Well, I don't know that it began here. I noted-- and I thought rather well of the idea. I think he still had Presidential ambitions. I think he thought he could be nominated. He didn't say so, but I think he thought that once he had cut off the antagonisms of the business community, he would be available. He had already the farmers and the labor community and a considerable part of the run of the mill Americans. I think he thought that when he had cut off the business opposition, which was subtle and continuous, that he would easily get the nomination for President, and he would be President. I think that was in his mind. He never said so, and I never questioned him so as to bring it out.