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demonstrations, was it not?

Yes. Adam, I think, was not unlike Martin [Martin Luther King], or Martin was not unlike Adam, in terms of being a catalyst and being able to arouse concerns which just didn't die. Even though they may not have directed it personally themselves, they made it necessary for other people to follow through. They certainly influenced, as you said, the civil rights organizations that were fairly better organized and better led at that time.

From what you know of Jesse Jackson, would you say that he would not be like Adam Powell in somewhat the respect I was talking about, but I'm thinking here, when Adam Powell was challenged for renomination by major Democratic voices in New York City, from Eleanor Roosevelt to Carmine de Sapio. Ray Jones came in and built a political organization that operated beyond Adam's church, but then only a couple or three years later Adam turned on Ray Jones, and that's virtually obliterated what could have been a Democratic apparatus continuing in Harlem. Was that not so?

Sort of, yes, that was so, because Adam was a king-sized egoist and really didn't need the kind of stable, solid political organization that Ray Jones was seeking to do.

Now from what you know of Jesse Jackson, would you say that