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course, education and health, other public health? Infant mortality is quite high?

Without question.

Did you have the sense that there was something genocidal about this, or was it simply isolating the blacks? That the fact that they were put in such poor living, poor health conditions--

It was inhuman. It was inhuman.

Inhuman? But objectively genocidal? Are they trying to cut the black birth rate, for example?

Oh, I don't think there's any question about that. I usually associate the term genocidal with the Nazis, where it's clear and deliberate and time restricted. This is over a period of time, the policies of the South African government in regard to the blacks. They're certainly seeking to restrict the growth of the black population.

Of course it does have a very high birth rate.

Yes. And, of course, the odd thing about that approach to the dominant group seeking to control the subordinate group is that what it does is-- unintentionally is to lead the selective