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his company's rationale for continuing their operations, that it wouldn't do any good, that it might do some harm if they disinvested. On the other hand, they may be doing some good. But are they?

I don't think any of the American companies are doing very much good in South Africa. I don't know that they can do very much good. Whatever they've done, they've done. I mean, for example, [Rev.] Leon Sullivan's principles seemed to me to have reached the maximum benefit that they could reach, in terms of American companies doing business in South Africa and having a sort of a deceiving equal employment program. I disassociated myself from Leon's program.

You associated yourself with it?

I disassociated myself.

Disassociated yourself with it.

Because I don't think that he had an adequate technique for monitoring the claims of the American companies in South Africa. You know, obviously those who are doing business in South Africa made very positive claims about their racial equal employment. But the Sullivan program had to take their word for it.