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individual's ability to cope with a given culture within a society. I am opposed to the myth of culture free tests. There is no such thing as a culture free test, because a test comes out of a culture and reflects to some extent the ability of the individual to cope with that culture, and I am opposed to those people who say that black children shouldn't be given these tests because they are biased. Well, what the tests are reflecting is the extent of the bias. What is the bias in the society that's being reflected in the level of performance of these children. The tests aren't biased. I'm talking about fairly competently constructed tests. The tests are indicators of bias and the tests tell us what we need to do in order to ameliorate or remove that bias. It would be the worst possible thing in the world, in educational terms, to get rid of tests. My goodness! You know, life tests-- and particularly in terms of mobility. Life is a much more stringent test than any ink or pencil test. You're hearing an old-fashioned professor talking.

As you have observed the use of these tests, however-- perhaps the Regents as a whole-- do you feel that the tests are being used as a tool to show which directions there should be more emphasis in? They're being used as much as they should or could be?

I think that tests unfortunately have been abused and can be used to exclude children. Instead of being used diagnostically, they can be used for premature judgments about the intellectual potential a child, which is to me wrong. That doesn't mean that all children