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And yet, going back to Carter's re-election effort, didn't he bring Louis Martin in to the White House to re-assure him on the black vote?

Yes, but it was not up for grabs.

It was almost a redundant mission, wasn't it?

Right.

Incidentally, you've participated in, what is it, the Joint Center for Political Studies in Washington?

I was a founder.

You were a founder of that. Perhaps, I asked you this before. Did you co-found that with Louis Martin, among others?

Louis Martin, and Percy Sutton. We were the founders.

How would you evaluate its achievements so far?

I think it's achieved in terms of being a repository of data on blacks--excuse me a moment.

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