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Dr. Clark, you've traveled in Africa outside South Africa a number of times--

Not very much.

Not very much.

No.

[tape stops and starts]

Dr. Clark, I want to make a slight correction to something that continued on my questions when I quoted somebody about Koch and Abrams. First of all, the person that said it was David Saperstein, co-director of the Religious Action Center who was holding a joint press conference with Benjamin Hooks. The dateline of the story is June 25th.

1985?

June 25, 1985. Yes, a few days ago. The full quote is, “It is cruelly unfair to measure the entire Jewish community by the Morris Abrams' and the Ed Koch's.” This is New York Times. You've already made your comments on that, but I want that more accurate. To the extent you have been in Africa or talked to other black Americans that have been in Africa, have you sensed that the typical black American, or when a black American goes to Africa typically he is not