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with Gallup in a joint venture.

Well, now what you've just said is that even if they wanted the prestige of the Gallup name in so-called white America, they could have had a joint venture with you and--in a sense then having the best of both worlds.

Of course, but they didn't. I must say, in all honesty, I was serious. I was angry and if I hadn't resigned a month or so before I would have resigned in expressed anger. They were in effect saying that we were incompetent, incapable to do what they wanted done. Well, you know whites have said that to blacks a hundred times before black headed organizations, and by the way, they did have their staff consultant man, white person by the name of [ ] McDonald, I think. That was one of the most devastating experiences I have had in quite a while. It was just unbelievable.

I assume Percy Sutton felt the same way.

Oh, yes. My anger in situations of that sort tends to take a cold, silent fury. When Eddie Williams told us what his rationale was, I looked at him, I said, “How dare you?” But Percy tore in to him. It was in that room.

Dr. Clark, I want to come back to your position that you took when you were president of the American Psychological Association. You've discussed this before where you proposed that new drugs be