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rather enthusiastic. He said, “My God, this couldn't have been better if it were prepared for us!”

I said, “OK, what do you want us to do?”

He said, “Well, we've got to meet.”

Next thing I knew, he and Thurgood (Marshall), whom I'd known before, had dragooned me. I mean, they just took for granted that I was going to be with them from that point on -- and that, by the way, was true. I just was brought in, as a functioning member of their staff, non-lawyer member. I was acheduled to go down to Clarendon County, South Carolina, with them, to seek out other expert witnesses for them, on the social and psychological damage of racial segregation. I became a member of the traveling crew, in a way.

And I say all that because this could only have happened in the context of the quality and type of department that I was a part of at City College, you see. I told the chairman of the department-- I think Gardner was still chairman -- what was going to happen, and they all totally identified with me. There wasn't the slightest sign of concern. In fact, my colleagues at that time in the department of psychology all volunteered to take my classes for me, when I was going to be on the road. These were extraordinary human beings -- I was about to say “men”, but there were some women, Gertrude Schmeidler and others in the department.

I just had a wonderful feeling of not only backing from my colleagues, but total identification with what I was doing. And when I came back from these trips, we'd sit together and talk