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she'll come on very understated, very softspoken, very easy. But it doesn't take a perceptive observer long to see that behind this softspoken, quite attractive female is a very solid, firm person. Now, how did I get off on that?

We were discussing how you set up Northside Center. You said that you went to a number of agencies soliciting some assistance, and didn't get any. What were some of the agencies?

Well, the New York Urban League, for one. The Community Service Society. The YM and YWCA's. You know, all of the agencies that had operations or programs in the Harlem area, the social agencies, we visited, and tried to get them to take this on, as an aspect of their programs.

In other words, they would have intergrated it into their own programs, rather than a separate operation.

Right. Absolutely. We went to the separate operation only when we received negative responses from all the other agencies.

And it wasn't until it had been on operation for a year that you got any outside assistance at all?

About a year. Maybe 18 months, something like that.

And who first came to your assistance?

A woman by the name of Marian Ascoli, the daughter of Julius Rosenwald, who had just recently moved to New York from Chicago.