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And I think Justine Polier, who was then a judge of the Domestic Relations Court. We talked with Justine. We talked with a number of people, you know, trying to get support. And I think it was Justine Polier and Moran Weston, who was a Protestant Episcopal minister atSt. Philip's Church (he was not at St. Philip's Church at that time) who knew Max Ascoli. These two people independently brought what we were doing to the attention of Marian Ascoli, and she sent a number of her friends and advisors to look at what we weredoing, and finally decided to support us.

We developed a board of directors and what not, and she was chairman of the board for many, many years, and was our prime supporter, until something happened that led to her withdrawal of support.

Would you care to go into that?

Yes, I'd care to go into it, if I get a cigar ette. Yes--

Yes, Marian was an extraordinary person. She believed in what we were doing. She not only supported it personally, but got many of her friends to support Northside and helped us to grow, you know, and put down roots. Marian's contribution was to provide us with solidity and continuity that's essential for a functioning agency.

She also felt that the type of agency that she wanted Northside to be would have to be one that was pretty much dominanted by the psychiatrists -- the psychiatric medical approach to child guidance services. The laws, by the way, or the rules and regulations tended to support this approach.

One of the things that became clear to Mamie and me within the