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first five years of our operation was that the traditional psychiatric, medical approach to emotional and behavioral disorders of children -- while it might be all right for middle class white children, and affluent -- had to undergo rather serious re-examination and modification, if one were trying to help children who were suffering from economic, social and racial deprivatio, you see. That traditional Freudianism or psychoanalytic or medical one to one -- and by the way, this we felt long before I went into HARYOU, you know. And the evidence seemed to us very clear.

This was sort of a continuing area of concern and potential conflict between Mamie and I and our, some of our associated -- including, interestingly enough, some of our medical associates at Northside, on the one hand, and Marian and some of her advisors on the other.

By the way, her brother-in-law was David Levy, who is a very well-known psychoanalytically-oriented psychiatrist associated with the Columbia school, and he influenced a great deal of her thinking on this matter.

Well, there came a time when the issue had to be joined by a particular man, a man by the name of Britt, who had come to the United States escaping the Nazis in the Hitler psychosis,. Britt was a psychiatrist, and without question was quite authoritarian, you know -- pompous, I think callously insensitive to human beings, but we found ourselves stuck with Britt as our medical director.

Within a year, it was clear to Mamie and me that if Dr. Britt continued as the medical director, with his manner and personality,