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Is there anything you can recall for your reminiscence from those conversations with Martin?

Sure. Louis had the highest degree of respect for Ray. In fact, Louis claims today, if you talk with him, that he more than any other single person was responsible for the, Ray's ability to control his skepticism about academicians. And to accept the possibility that we could be friends. I don't know, maybe Louis is telling the truth. Louis says that he convinced Ray that Ray should work with me on the HARYOU thing. Ray has never confirmed that. In fact, I've never asked Ray. I saw Ray, by the way, last month when I was in the Virgin Islands, spent the day with him.

Down in St. Thomas. Is there anyone else, any other, leaders of either race, any race, that you were in important consultation with, during the HARYOU -ACT dispute? CORE, for example?

No. Malcolm X. The youngsters thought they were putting something over on me, inviting Malcolm to any of our meetings and affairs and what not. What they didn't know was that Malcolm and I had mutual respect. We let them believe what they wanted to believe. We'd talk about it, after. Malcolm had-- he was very positive about what we were doing. We talked about it. I had a lot of respect for Malcolm X. He had a sense of division of labor in the complex war against racism, you know. He knew that he had a difficult role to play, which would complement the kind of role that more “respected” civil rights leaders played. We talked about it.