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Bowker the first or second year he came as chancellor of the university here. He sent for me, and I went and talked. And I liked him as a person from the first conversations we had, and we got to be friends, mutual respect. We visited each other's homes.

Given the nature and quality of my relationship with Gallagher, I felt more comfortable in telling him (Bowker?) about this new venture. You know, he knew about HARYOU. I don't know whether he knew about Social Dynamics Research Institute or not, but everybody knew about the HARYOU thing -- he certainly knew.

I remember going into his office and telling him this, and telling him that I would like to have a leave, either a full time leave, or half time.

You know what that man did? He looked at me and said, “Kenneth, this is very important for the university. It will be to the advantage of our graduate students. We will make a contribution to this. Cut your teaching schedule in half, but maintain your salary full time.”

I said, “But --”

He said, “No, we can't be overtly partners of this”, and the only thing he asked of me was whether our graduate students would be able to participate in this as part of the practicum of a dynamic kind of social research?

I said, “Sure.” And from that point on, I got no interference whatsoever from the City University. I held my graduate seminars in applied social psychology in MARC's? conference room.