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how to be identified with goals that get diverted by more pragmatic decisions.

Did you feel that Lindsay listened to you? I'm using the word “listened” now in a figurative sense.

Oh yes. He listened. But again, he had amitions. I felt sorrier for Lindsay than I did for Wagner. I think that in many ways, Lindsay made Wagner look good. Now, don't ask me to be specific about the ways, but I always felt more comfortable talking with Wagner than I ever did with Lindsay, and I talked with Lindsay, in a given period of time, as frequently as I talked with Wagner, but there was something about Lindsay that bothered me. He seemed very intelligent man. He obviously was literate and articulate.

I don't know what else to say about Lindsay, except that he never seemed to me to be as in control as the chief executive officer of anything should be. I mean, I never felt that I ever had any genuine contact with this man, in communication.

I know -- he always seemed to me to be at like an actor. He would be saying the right things, in a given situation, but I never left a meeting with Lindsay believing that what we talked about would be followed through.

And I don't remember whether it ever was.

He never made promises at all? Is that right?

Oh yes, he made a very strong promise on the Forest Hills thing -- that it was not going to be cut back, you know. That this was