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And that, I guess, leads to a strong feeling that you have to get these children desegregated. You really do. And I think this was the next step. I can't be sure but I think so. Certainly for me, I began to wonder about the children in segregated situations. I began to wonder about myself. You know, did I have self-hatred? And I didn't have any self-hatred, and I couldn't figure out why, when all these children that we were looking at seemed not to like themselves.

I began to think that a crucial part of children's lives, no matter what happens, has to be a degree of security and acceptance, on the part of your parents, and I had had that. Many children have that. Not everyone, but a number of children have security, and they're loved and accepted, so they can accept themselves, actually.

I don't know whether this is the way it evolved. But you're asking me to do something I've never done before, so I'm doing it in a choppy way.

But one thing leads to another, and you begin to think about the security in children, and you begin to wonder, how can you give these children security? The next stage is, what to do about it? What kinds of remedies are there for children?

I don't know whether that answers the question or not.

Yes. Now, these studies -- the program of field studies. Did this envisage going on into remedial work, or was this essentialy a research project, just being in the findings?

It was essentially a research project, to bring in the