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Stone, who had helped me secure funds for some other project that I was involved in--probably in the urban world, or something like that--I can't remember what the subject was. And I think he had a house up in Vermont. And one day, he said to me: “You know, they really need a fellow like you as a trustee at Bennington.” I barely knew what Bennington was. But--

Approximately when are you talking about?

'64. No, earlier, earlier. '62. Yes, I did 14 years, two terms and I was out of there by '77, I think. And so I--you know--who am I to turn down the Ford Foundation? Not me! [laughter].

Hold on.

[end of cassette one, side one: beginning of cassette one, side two].

Go ahead.

I went there, I got up there--in those happy days I could use a company plane for my professional associations of this kind, and they had a tiny little airport up there--it was always rather hazardous, getting up, but anyway, it saved me a five-hour drive. And I got to Bennington, and I found this rather interesting institution that had been started in the middle-thirties really as an