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advertising. And then the situation will reverse itself. Just in the last two or three years, Newsweek sort of sank at--I've never quite understood what goes on there, because Kay Graham, who owns it, seems to fire the publisher or the managing editor every other year--which doesn't give you much stability or continuity.

So, there's never any moment of peace, sort of satisfaction. You never can sit back and say: “Well, everything is going fine, let's relax.” Always something is going wrong. Sometimes there isn't very much to talk about, and you still have to come out every week. You know, it's a little bit like columnists who come out three times a week. I keep saying to myself: “Why do they have to come out when they don't have anything to say?”

You were going down a list--the paring of managing editors with publishers. How did the others get along--at Time?

Well, Otto lasted eight years, and he had Shepley. I think I've described Shepley. Shepley had come from Fortune, the publisher of Fortune. And I think he and Otto had quite a few set-tos, because they're both people of considerable conviction as to their own views. And of course, Shepley was also erupting all over the place. I remember he was forever complaining about the ever-rising editorial costs, a complaint that goes back as far as my memory and is even more of a complaint today than it was then. Then Henry came in, Henry Grunwald, and his first publisher was Hank Luce--