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things which they, the parents, consider to be against the teachings of The Bible, and that in any instance where the teacher is doing so they will have the right to take the children out of the school. Then there's another somewhat similar case in Alabama, and in both of these cases we represent--we are fighting--and we have been able to get lawyers to contribute their time pro bono. However, there's an interesting side aspect to that.

The first time that I was brought face to face with this was another instance, I forget what it was. But anyway we got a firm to give us a lawyer, a very good lawyer. But they said, “Of course you have to pay out-of-pocket expenses”. And we said, “Well, of course we'll pay the out-of-pocket expenses. What might they be?” They said, “Between a hundred and two hundred thousand dollars.” That was quite a lot of money for what was then a very small organization. Today we could afford it. But it shows you the problem of justice is also comes in economic terms. If out of pocket expenses are going to be a hundred or two hundred thousand dollars for a suit.

Have you gotten involved in fundraising?

Oh, we have some of the best fundraisers of them all. Yes I get involved in fundraising regularly for them. Much of it is done by direct mail. Much of it is done by television advertising spots. Of course, Norman Lear is very good at creating those. And these spots have had great impact, both in terms of bringing us allies and in terms of bringing us money. The direct mail has been extraordinarily successful. We seem to touch a nerve with our direct