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What about the early years of Nixon? Before the White House became a fortress.

I'm not sure. I'm a blank on--you mean in 1968?

Do you remember meeting with Nixon?

I don't think I ever met with Nixon. In fact I have a vague recollection of saying to myself, “It's funny, here I am a Republican and I've never met with any Republican, really met with any Republican president. And I've met with all the Democratic presidents.”

Let's just continue on the theme of White House pressure. What about in the time of Ford?

Oh, Ford wouldn't pressure anybody about anything. Except a golf game. [laughter]

Did you meet with him when he was president?

No, not met, but I was-

But nothing-

Yeah, no.