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O.K., let's talk now about through the years, the relationship of the corporation and the unions.

Well, It is said, though I'm not sure that I can believe it, that when the union issue first arose in the Thirties that Harry Luce said, “Well, why shouldn't I be a member of the union?” Sounds good anyway.

He was an editor, as an editor, you mean.

As an editor, yes. The union was--I guess we were always worried about unions. In part because the history of unions in the journalistic world is a pretty dreadful one, going way back. And if you look at what happened to newspapers, the unions really gained an upper hand. I've never quite been able to ascertain why that happened. But the Typographical Union was able to shut down newspapers in England, or the U.S. pretty much at will.

[End of tape one, side two.]

Today is March 2, 1987. This is Jessica Holland with Andrew Heiskell at 870 U.N. Plaza. Go ahead.

-pretty much at will. And I'm not quite sure whether that was why we started printing at Donnelly's, but Donnelly's was a non-union shop. And I suspect it was a factor in the whole picture. But when the newspaper Guild came to Time