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was that they were not hired for their writing skills-

The researchers.

Right, or wrong that was the argument made. They were not hired for their writing skills. When we wanted a writer, we went out and looked for a writer and, quote, “Whether it was a man or a woman didn't matter.” I'm just saying that was the argument. I didn't say that was the truth. But that was the argument, and indeed they did hire women, but they didn't promote them. That was a mistake because obviously there were a lot of people that you could have promoted, or could have promoted and gone to the trouble of training them and then you would have found out, after six months, or nine months whether they could or couldn't.

Frankly-

But they didn't want to do that.

-you're talking always about they in this discussion. Where were you on this? And the answer might even be that you just weren't even thinking about it. But did you think about this issue during the '70's? Did you have any personal commitment, or lack, or on the contrary, lack of commitment?

No, I thought about it and talked about it quite a lot. I didn't have enormous commitment. But I did always believe in