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Well, the big theatres, as you know, are doing nothing practically, except the multi-million shows.

Nothing of what?

Nothing. Well, there's very little theatre left in New York now. Most of the regular theatres are black, most of the time in New York.

Are you saying that the problem with the Vivian Beaumont right now is money and the reason--in other words, it's gotten good artistic direction, etc. and the reason that it has money problems is that it doesn't have this key person leading a strong and committed board.

Mm-hum, I think so.

What about the Vivian Beaumont in relation to Lincoln Center? In other words, Segal's out, Weissman is in. You have Nat Levanthal coming in at the same time. What has been the relationship between Lincoln Center and-

Very good. It's been very good and we are now talking--we have gone and talked with George and Nat about our problems. And they have taken quarter way measures to alleviate our problem. But if we are to persevere we're gonna simply have to get more help from