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Shepley on many occasions, because he tended to represent state in its purest form. [laughs]

When the decision was made to go with the LIFE editorial, was he still opposed?

No, I think he'd come around by then, yes.

But, in other words, if it hadn't been for that friction, perhaps you would have gone out in print earlier? Come out in print earlier?

Might have, but I doubt it very much.

What would be other examples, along this particular line, where there is no way Donovan would put something in an editorial without you two having talked about it for a period of time--perhaps a political endorsement for President?

I can't remember, really, about political endorsements for President, because neither Hedley nor I were very hot about endorsing Presidents. Harry was, but we never felt that was an essential role for us to play.

And yet--

Well, I think we did--