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hard enough to get the Post Office to understand it. To get the Congress to understand it was a near impossibility. So they'd say: “Oh, my God, you're getting this for two and a half cents! It must cost five cents or ten cents to deliver.” We spent an inordinate amount of time in Washington trying to get that across. And finally, I think, belatedly, now they're beginning to realize it. Of course, the zip coding is an indication of it, because they're now discounting the price for those who zip code. Well, we were zip coding before anybody, and they were saying we should be paying more.

Do you personally have any recollections of any interesting discussions with a particular senator or a President about postal rate?

I got mad with practically everybody in Washington about it, starting with Postmaster General Summerfield. In those days, the postmaster was a big political character--he no longer is. And I guess I lobbied every postmaster from 1946 until 1980.

[laughs] So there is--

And I lobbied every senator--I once lobbied seventy-one senators in one month period. Seventy-one. That's quite a lot. You know, you run back and forth, because they never stay in their office, so you got to catch them in that little car that goes over for the vote, and so on, and then you catch them as they come back--yes, that's part of management. I've forgotten that aspect of