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He was bright. Oh, the Foundation, yes. But the Foundation was not Time Inc.

But the Foundation controlled a nice chunk of stock.

Yes. Yes, well, that's true.

But I guess--

But by law that gradually was eliminated, too, as you know.

I see. But in other words, and how was he put in charge of the Foundation? That had nothing to do with the people running Time Inc., I guess? Did the trustees of the Foundation put him in charge?

Yes, I guess so. The trustees were Beth and Tex and Harry, and Charlie Stillman, and I forget who else. And he still is the chairman of the Foundation.

What did his relationship with the company remain like after Luce's death, and once he was head of the Foundation?

He's just remained as a director.

But in a positive or a negative or a neutral role? You know, you described Clare's negative behavior.