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Did people know it was a heart attack?

No. A few of us suspected it, but it wasn't sort of officially--I don't know why. Nowadays people aren't--”I Had a heart attack?” “Well, how many have you had?” [laughs] But he made a great point of trying to hide it. It's funny, I have one memory of him. It must have been around 1960. I walked into his office, and there he was sound asleep on his couch. And I thought, “That's funny.” I realized that, I guess, that was the beginning of old age. [laughs] He didn't close the door, or anything.

Did you wake him up or you-- [laughter]

You had mentioned him arranging for her ambassadorship to Italy. Who do you think wanted that, he or she or both?

She wanted. She wanted it, but what surprised all of us was his perfect willingness to suddenly become sort of number three, or number four. I mean, he wasn't even the minister! He just had an office there, and he was--I gather--as useful as any man could be. I guess he paid her back for all the mistreatment he'd given her before, or something. [laughs] He really, apparently, was just terrific. I got this from uninterested people who'd come back from Italy and I'd say, “Well, how the hell is Harry spending his time?” And they'd say, “Oh, you don't know! He's really working very hard! He's being very helpful! He goes around and calls on business people