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course, both delighted, because we'd really been sort of itching for that because we, too, had done fifteen years in one job.

Do you think some of the reasons for this change at this time had been Luce's first coronary, in 1958? Because as you yourself said, Stillman was still only fifty-six, and Howard Black was fifty-three. Larsen and Luce were a bit older but not very, very old. Why did this happen? In other words, why did this management reorganization occur between 1959 and 1960?

I don't know. I suppose he had intimations of mortality from that first thing. But as I said earlier, contrary to general impression, Harry was a very good organization man, at least in the theoretical sense of considering that organization was very important, and that the company had to be well structured. This may or may not have to do with intimations of mortality, but he knew he would not be there forever, and he wanted--I think he had an awful lot to do with saying: “Now we've got to find the right structure to run the company when we're not around”--probably how he put it. And while I was not privy to any of those conversations at that level, obviously, I can well imagine a year of conversations between Harry and Tex and Roy and Black and Stillman, some of which would be quite difficult, I would think, because in effect it meant retirement or semi-retirement for at least three of them. Now, Roy was the kind of man who would have accepted that quite willingly. I don't think Black or Stillman particularly wanted to be retired at that point, and, of course, Harry was playing it both ways. He was