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And 1969 is when you were made C.E.O.

It was a progressive situation. It was not a problem in 1960; it became a problem in the mid-1960s, but I couldn't tell you at what date he finally sort of lost control--but it was in the late 1960s, and there would be incident after incident at a company dinner, or even in public events. And then he did get a little stroke, and Hedley and I had to finally face it. I guess we had to talk to the board, or at least some members of the board, but we finally got him to resign as president and become chairman of the Executive Committee.

Did that mean anything?

Well, it meant that he kept an office and that he could have the facilities, and so on so on. It didn't have any line of responsibility going with it. And the board, which had all along questioned the advisability of no C.E.O., then insisted on there being one. And I became C.E.O., a term that I've never liked either. I never signed my letters C.E.O.

How did you sign them? Chairman of the Board?

Chairman. Chairman, period.

Do you remember any board members in particular feeling strongly about that or pushing--