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What about forest products?
And then we had a group vice president for forest
products, namely Buckley.
Whose idea was it to get this other layer of management
underneath the chief operating-officer and the chief executive--
Oh, it was just a necessity, because we just had too many
operations, and there had to be this.
Did you ever have any management consultants help reorganize the
No, I didn't like to have consultants. I was
anti-management consultants person, unlike my successors who spend
millions on them. I only used a management consultant if I wanted to
have somebody else say what I believed.
Then this reorganization--did you just more or less work it out
with Donovan and Shepley?
Yes. Yes. Well, quite clearly Texas had to be run as an
independent fiefdom. There were getting to be too many magazines.
There were too many problems in the magazines. There had to be a
boss for them. And books was then burgeoning, and was becoming--I
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