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the dogs,” Four groups, four divisions that were all problems that I didn't understand, nobody else could seem to understand. They included ATC, HBO--which, you know, they're all very successful now but they sure as hell weren't then. Something called--I forget the names, but it was in effect hotel-television, the equivalent of cable for hotels. And one other. We had to give up the hotel one, because the only way you could sell that, make that successful, was X-rated films, which didn't exactly go with the general picture of Time Incorporated. But Dick made sense out of ATC and out of HBO, and one other--I forget what the other one was. Anyway, that was very impressive to me. He got us out of various troubles that we'd gotten into--I forget what, movie companies, or something. And he seemed like a very solid citizen, and he was a man of great rectitude. But he was also a very sort of private person. And the only thing I had against him was--he got up at five o'clock in the morning and went jogging for an hour. But then he went home at five in the evening. Always went home. Not always, but--

He was what's called “a morning person?”

I guess so. Whereas Ralph is more of an evening person. And Ralph was a good speaker, made a very good appearance, had had a lot of experience with Washington, done a lot of work there, knew the world. He had been trained at Time International. So I thought the combination of Davidson, Munro and Grum was what we needed to run that strange hybrid corporation.